Voting system changes

3 years 4 months ago #19080 by Phaiz
Voting system changes was created by Phaiz
In response to the level of vote abuse we see on the servers I have restricted access to this feature to Seeders and Donors. Generally unwarranted votes won't pass but this will prevent just anyone from spamming votes when there is no admin on the server.

If you want to know how to become a Seeder you can read [url=http://skvrs.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=908:1cxp4yhy]this[/url:1cxp4yhy]
If you want to know how to become a Donor you can read [url=http://skvrs.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=11&p=17#p17:1cxp4yhy]this[/url:1cxp4yhy]

You can view all Stamm and Donor related perks [url=http://stamm.skvrs.com/:1cxp4yhy]here[/url:1cxp4yhy] and [url=http://stamm.skvrs.com/index.php?steamid=http%3A%2F%2Fsteamcommunity.com%2Fid%2Fphaiz%2F:1cxp4yhy]here[/url:1cxp4yhy] is a fully unlocked example

When you've done things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all

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3 years 4 months ago #19101 by Justin
Replied by Justin on topic Voting system changes
I will voice a dissenting opinion here, just so that our player base is aware that the admins know that this is not the [i:g1yas74c]best[/i:g1yas74c] outcome, the admins as a whole believe this is what is best for our community as a whole. I would also like to make it clear that what I say in this comment is in no way speaking for the Skiver admins as a group and while it may reflect the opinion of multiple admins, it is purely my own opinion on the matter. /disclaimer

Man this sucks, less than 20 non-admin players (currently) will now be able to use the votemenu. This means if any of them or or an admin is not present things like micspam and hacking (not caught by smac) will be fair game. While I really hope this move motivates users to start Reporting here on the forums, and therefore being a more active part of the community, I do not think it will.

Need something? Send me a PM here and I will get to it within 48 hours, or add me on Steam and I will get to it eventually - steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198025232990

[img:3azf5qz9]http://stats.skvrs.com/sig.php?player_id=5093&background=random[/img:3azf5qz9][/url:3azf5qz9]

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3 years 4 months ago #19102 by crazie
Replied by crazie on topic Voting system changes
Sadly I agree with you Justin

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3 years 4 months ago #19103 by Battle Hardened Fox
If I may voice my opinion. While it may not be the best idea, the vote system can be handed out to players with the highest stamm points. It is just my idea, I understand why the voting system has changed and I respect the decision to change it

[i:2ynkpg8b][b:2ynkpg8b]Everybody out of my way. I got a hat full of bomb, a hand full of penis, and a head full of empty.[/b:2ynkpg8b][/i:2ynkpg8b]

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3 years 4 months ago #19104 by Clone
Replied by Clone on topic Voting system changes

Battle Hardened Fox wrote: If I may voice my opinion. While it may not be the best idea, the vote system can be handed out to players with the highest stamm points. It is just my idea, I understand why the voting system has changed and I respect the decision to change it


We already considered this option. Unfortunatly it is not possible at this moment.

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3 years 4 months ago #19105 by Battle Hardened Fox

Clone wrote:

Battle Hardened Fox wrote: If I may voice my opinion. While it may not be the best idea, the vote system can be handed out to players with the highest stamm points. It is just my idea, I understand why the voting system has changed and I respect the decision to change it


We already considered this option. Unfortunatly it is not possible at this moment.


Understandable.

Will this voting system change again? I'm not asking for when, where, or how. Just will it?

[i:2ynkpg8b][b:2ynkpg8b]Everybody out of my way. I got a hat full of bomb, a hand full of penis, and a head full of empty.[/b:2ynkpg8b][/i:2ynkpg8b]

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3 years 4 months ago #19106 by Gangsta Luigi
Replied by Gangsta Luigi on topic Voting system changes
I feel like this is a step in the wrong direction.

Can only go off of my experience so I'm assuming nothing changed significantly in the 2 weeks I haven't played on the server, but most of the times that someone abused the vote commands, almost every single time the rest of the server always votes "no" and reprimands the guy calling the votes for no reason.

And if there's an admin there then it gets resolved even easier.

I guess my feeling is, yes, there's vote abuse, but it never does any damage. And in the cases where it does people report the vote abuser on the forums.

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3 years 4 months ago #19107 by Battle Hardened Fox

Gangsta Luigi wrote: I feel like this is a step in the wrong direction.

Can only go off of my experience so I'm assuming nothing changed significantly in the 2 weeks I haven't played on the server, but most of the times that someone abused the vote commands, almost every single time the rest of the server always votes "no" and reprimands the guy calling the votes for no reason.

And if there's an admin there then it gets resolved even easier.

I guess my feeling is, yes, there's vote abuse, but it never does any damage. And in the cases where it does people report the vote abuser on the forums.


Looking back on my statement, it would be a good idea to remove the ban from the vote system. It's just my idea though, cause even if it's not a long ban, it causes the most damage

[i:2ynkpg8b][b:2ynkpg8b]Everybody out of my way. I got a hat full of bomb, a hand full of penis, and a head full of empty.[/b:2ynkpg8b][/i:2ynkpg8b]

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3 years 4 months ago #19114 by Phaiz
Replied by Phaiz on topic Voting system changes
The voting system is complicated and has issues regardless of the community or game it's on. Some wanted the system pulled entirely but I want to see what this does first, it may fail and everything gets reverted.

It's also not difficult to gain and maintain Seeder status for access to vote calling.

When you've done things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all

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3 years 4 months ago #19118 by Hatter
Replied by Hatter on topic Voting system changes
I agree with what Justin is saying, but only to a point.

I have gotten a lot of requests for admin presence over the past month or so and it is reflected in the bans/silences, I account for about 50 percent of non console bans/silences in that timeframe. The vote system is rarely used correctly and it seems it is abused more often than not. I've seen people trying to ban for what should be a silence (if anything at all) and people trying to kick for something that should be a ban. People don't even check for an admin first. I'll be in spec trying to catch a hacker or someone using an inappropriate spray (and moving it constantly) and people jump right into !voteban mode which forces me to stop the vote and reveal to the hacker/sprayer that an admin is present which, of course., results in them turning off their aimbot before I can get a demo.

I've had people report someone abusing the !vote system and when I get there and watch what is going on, it turns out that there is a hacker who they are trying to votekick and people on the hacker's team are reporting it as !vote abuse because they are not falling victim to the hacker and don't know better. Or even better, I get my demo and ban someone and chat erupts with "Oh there is an admin on? Why was so and so kicked? He didn't do anything. Admin abuse!, admin is triggered" but that is another rant for another time.

As to mic spamming, people can mute them client side. Valve has even provided TWO DIFFERENT WAYS to do it and they both take fewer keystrokes/motions to perform than typing "!votemenu". But rather than simply solve the problem with a mute, they want to see people get punished or to tell them to "shut up" for 10 mins because it seems it is human nature to be an asshole or make things harder than they should be.

On top of all of this, the person being !vote silenced/kicked/banned can simply disconnect during the vote and then reconnect avoiding the punishment all together and most of them know this.

Yeah, I wish there were more admins and seeders to police things, but I sure as hell wont miss random idiots joining the servers and abusing the !vote system and having to be called from whatever I am doing to deal with it.

Maybe this solution isn't perfect, but what we had before sure wasn't either. Perhaps this will force more people to learn who is an admin, how to check for them online, and how to report problems.

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3 years 4 months ago #19122 by MuffinManV
Replied by MuffinManV on topic Voting system changes

Clone wrote: We already considered this option. Unfortunatly it is not possible at this moment.


I'm sure this involves something beyond my knowledge, as I don't know how the stamm system is managed, but I'm simply curious as to why that won't work. Not trying to question your statement, I just wanna know the technicalities behind it. If you don't want to be bothered, that's fine, too.

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3 years 4 months ago #19125 by Clone
Replied by Clone on topic Voting system changes

MuffinManV wrote:

Clone wrote: We already considered this option. Unfortunatly it is not possible at this moment.


I'm sure this involves something beyond my knowledge, as I don't know how the stamm system is managed, but I'm simply curious as to why that won't work. Not trying to question your statement, I just wanna know the technicalities behind it. If you don't want to be bothered, that's fine, too.



I already explained it on Discord but I'll explain it again. Stamm does not give players SB flags (which act like groups: donors, admins, seeders, etc) so it's impossible to give high stamm players the ability to vote. Anyway voteban is the only vote that should be used on hackers/cheaters. Votesilence is useless since you can silence client-side and votekick does not prevent the player from rejoining.

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3 years 4 months ago #19131 by MuffinManV
Replied by MuffinManV on topic Voting system changes

Clone wrote: I already explained it on Discord but I'll explain it again. Stamm does not give players SB flags (which act like groups: donors, admins, seeders, etc) so it's impossible to give high stamm players the ability to vote. Anyway voteban is the only vote that should be used on hackers/cheaters. Votesilence is useless since you can silence client-side and votekick does not prevent the player from rejoining.



Thank you. So this doesn't happen again, I've already joined the Discord group.

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