Appealing 1 day ban on principle.

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Re: Appealing 1 day ban on principle.

Postby Johnny Wise » September 6th, 2016, 10:33 pm

I asked multiple admins (including Head Admin Phaiz) if there was a rule against hard pocketing. I was told there was not. Therefore, there is no basis for this ban, or to ask a hard pocket to heal others. If they ignore an admin telling them what to do based on personal belief rather than server rules, then no action can be taken by said admin. As a senior admin you should be aware of this Crazie.
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Re: Appealing 1 day ban on principle.

Postby crazie » September 6th, 2016, 10:40 pm

Was not banned for pocketing was banned for trolling. Feel free to read the rule wise since you feel the need to to inform me of what I should know.
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Re: Appealing 1 day ban on principle.

Postby Johnny Wise » September 6th, 2016, 10:48 pm

What part of it was trolling exactly? Hard pocketing is not trolling. Telling an admin that you are going to ignore them is not trolling. If anything, that is disrespect, however an admin has no right to ask a player to stop doing something that is within the rules, just because of personal opinion. This is abuse of power on the admin's part, in which case it is completely within that player's right to ignore an admin. In fact, they can report that admin's actions as admin abuse.
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Re: Appealing 1 day ban on principle.

Postby citizen_ » September 6th, 2016, 10:56 pm

Greetings,


I am rose's pocket, and she is my medic. we've played together for years the way we always do on pubs and never encountered anything more than some mildly irritated teammates who felt entitled to heals for merely existing, luckily server admins have always been very kind in telling players its not against the rules to heal a single player. This time however was different, and marks the first ban either of us have ever received for simply playing the game how we choose to. The rules do NOT say anything about pocketing single players which makes this ban a clear overstep in power. We all understand the ban is only for 1 day, but as the title says, this is more about principle than anything and it's good to keep a clean record in TF2 communities.

We're not upset with the individual who banned rose; we understand even admins are human and make mistakes, or perhaps it was just a bad day for them, we're simply just trying to set the record straight and to help prevent unfortunate cases like this happen in the future.

To be clear, I have read the rules, if I missed the part that says "admins can make up rules on the fly to suit their gaming experience" please let me know.
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Re: Appealing 1 day ban on principle.

Postby Hatter » September 6th, 2016, 10:58 pm

rose-m wrote:
crazie wrote: 7. Trolls - Troll engineers as well as other troll classes will not be tolerated. We want you to have fun, but you still need to help your team. (This will be handled at the staffs discretion).



I might find this slightly more convincing if you weren't the very first admin to take enough offense to my playing to make use of your powers, I've had more then enough people go after me for it in the past on that server, but not once did admins decide to step in. I feel if you were truly disapointed with my playing, you could have gone med yourself and gave the heals i wouldnt.


I highlighted the key part of the rule...it's admin discretion. This means all admins will handle it differently as how they see fit. Some might not care, others will. They might not enforce if there are two medics on the team and the other handles team healing. You ignored the admin warnings (verbal and kick), so you were banned for "ignoring admins" instead of "trolling".

It's a one day ban, learn from it and then come back and play. Life goes on.
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Re: Appealing 1 day ban on principle.

Postby Johnny Wise » September 6th, 2016, 11:06 pm

Hatter, the very fact that staff discretion is a part of a rule opens the door to abuse. A general definition of a troll class is someone deliberately preventing their team from playing the game (Tele-trapping, spawn trapping, etc.) Pocket medic is not a part of this, and rules should NEVER be open to interpretation. The very fact that they are means that they cannot be rules, but they are opinions and therefore do not need to be followed.

By highlighting this particular portion of the rule, you have invalidated your entire argument. If you want rules to be properly enforced, then they need to be set in stone and dealt in absolutes.
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Re: Appealing 1 day ban on principle.

Postby Gangsta Luigi » September 6th, 2016, 11:11 pm

Look, rose, clearly the members of the group are split on this.

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Re: Appealing 1 day ban on principle.

Postby rose-m » September 6th, 2016, 11:13 pm

Johnny Wise wrote:Hatter, the very fact that staff discretion is a part of a rule opens the door to abuse. A general definition of a troll class is someone deliberately preventing their team from playing the game (Tele-trapping, spawn trapping, etc.) Pocket medic is not a part of this, and rules should NEVER be open to interpretation. The very fact that they are means that they cannot be rules, but they are opinions and therefore do not need to be followed.

By highlighting this particular portion of the rule, you have invalidated your entire argument. If you want rules to be properly enforced, then they need to be set in stone and dealt in absolutes.



No idea who you are, but I'll have to agree. The idea that "its up to discretion" gets thrown out the window when its very inconsistent, IE the other times I reference doing this has the literal entire 10 other people on the team yelling at me for it, yet the admins who are right there, do nothing about it. The rules as stated, should be absolute you either ban everyone for it or you don't. I can't imagine a first day medic who latches onto the first heavy he sees like a lost baby duck would get banned for it. Even though he effectively is doing the exact same thing, as I.
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Re: Appealing 1 day ban on principle.

Postby Clone » September 6th, 2016, 11:33 pm

Johnny Wise wrote:Hatter, the very fact that staff discretion is a part of a rule opens the door to abuse. A general definition of a troll class is someone deliberately preventing their team from playing the game (Tele-trapping, spawn trapping, etc.) Pocket medic is not a part of this, and rules should NEVER be open to interpretation. The very fact that they are means that they cannot be rules, but they are opinions and therefore do not need to be followed.

By highlighting this particular portion of the rule, you have invalidated your entire argument. If you want rules to be properly enforced, then they need to be set in stone and dealt in absolutes.



I am 100% with you on this.
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Re: Appealing 1 day ban on principle.

Postby ineedanewname995 » September 6th, 2016, 11:41 pm

FREE DIS BOI :lol:
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